Here we go again. More math drama. I think I’ve made it pretty clear that first grade math story problems are not my favorite and I had planned to never bring the subject up again. But then this came along:
Let’s take a minute to discuss what I find to be some key issues:
- I see that “3 numbers” is circled. Presumably this was done to highlight a concept that Little Yoda missed. To that, I say: Three tens are three numbers.
- I also see that skip counting is modeled in red ink. That’s nice. However, the directions do not indicate that one must show skip counting to answer this question appropriately. In fact, my understanding is that one must answer the question “Did Ann skip count by 2s, 5s, or 10s?”
- Can we not assume that if Yoda illustrates that 10+10+10=30, then he understands the concept that Ann is counting by tens to get to thirty?
- Since Little Yoda finds this math problem to be so mind-numbing that he has to toss in some third-grade division to entertain himself (while simultaneously adding strength to his argument that Ann is counting by tens), is it too much to ask that we assume he’s got the math down and we not mark up his paper?
Here’s the thing. I understand that having Asperger’s increases my risk of developing narcissistic defenses. I accept that such defenses could be driving my condescending attitude toward this asinine math problem. And maybe I’m being a bit snobby when I say that my kid consistently blows first grade math out of the water. But it drives me bonkers when he comes home with his pages all marked up, thus decreasing his confidence in what God very well may have intended to be his gift. Am I alone in this?
P.S. It’s worth noting that Yoda’s teacher is awesome and would mark this answer correct if I had the balls to say all this to her face. This post is not about her, but is instead about displacing a lifetime’s worth of frustration on this one measly problem.
Actually, Ann was counting by 15s. She “started with zero” and used only 3 numbers: 0, 15, 30. Duh.
I’m a math nerd, I have tutored many people in math, from elementary school up through advanced physics and calculus. These problems are ridiculous.
Ha ha! I LOVE it! Great answer, E.
I know its tongue in cheek, but my inability to interpret questions like that has cost me numerous times, both in classroom and standardized tests. One of my biggest issues in college was misinterpreting questions on exams. The professors always say “raise your hand and ask for clarification if something is unclear” and think that is sufficient. But often the question isn’t unclear, I just misinterpret it, like the one above. 3 numbers, starting with zero, means that zero is the first number. Unless I want to raise my hand and ask for clarification on each and every question, which would not only be a pain in the rear, but extraordinarily disruptive, I just have to go with it. Ah, literal thinking. On the plus side, most of the time, if the professor takes off credit, and I think it’s not deserved due to this problem, I go talk to them, and explain my reasoning. Most of the time, they agree that I was right given the question that was asked and what I answered. But unclear questions are terrible for literal thinkers like me.
I’m glad your profs were flexible with you, because your answer is correct. In my opinion, it’s MORE correct. Anyway, it’s good you knew you were a literal thinker in school. I always just assumed I was wrong.
No, you are not ridiculous. I felt like screaming “pull him out of those damn institutions….” I hate institutional learning…and that probably is my narcissistic aspie defences but I know I am right- ha ha:) I don’t have all the patience with home schooling either nor the rigidity in schedule so I have an aid (my son’s ) come help with schooling a few hours a week. I would march in there and tell that teacher off:) Your son is amazing and honestly- stuff like that made me quit math because even tho I got the answers it was always unconventional so then I viewed myself as dumb… I sooo get this!:) Yay for you for speaking up on it:)
This is exactly my fear – I am afraid he’ll start second-guessing himself even though he’s clearly strong in this subject. As much as I love his school, I am starting to understand that institutionalized learning is not ideal. I’m sick of wasting his time on things that will never be of interest to him and then not having enough time to dedicate to the things that he loves. At the same time, though, the school exposes him to things I would never think of. And he seems to really like it.
I think I project my own stuff onto him when I think about pulling him. School was very unsatisfying for me.
seriously, he should be getting some props for his Jedi math tricks, that’s impressive. This also just seems like one of those story problems that never needed to be a story. I always imagined the point of math stories was to show how math comes up in everyday situations and how to pull out the variables. this is just a straight forward math question made more confusing by adding a bunch of superfluous words and saying it was done by some random person named Anne.
I didn’t even think of it that way! Now I’m even angrier. LOL
Im with you on this one; think the teacher is being picky. I’d have done it in the same way as Yoda. It says to give the reason for the answer of 2s, 5s, or 10s showing the working which Yoda has done.
Showing it as 10, 20, 30 doesn’t show the answer to the question, being ‘does she count in 2s, 5s, or 10s’
“Showing it as 10, 20, 30 doesn’t show the answer to the question” – Seriously!
I excelled at writing in college because I have the ability to write longwinded diatribe about absolutely nothing. If the question was “did they have water during the Civil War era?” I could write five pages or more for an answer where one word would suffice.
However with Math… no go. We are homeschooling our youngest who was born with a traumatic brain injury, facets of autism, reactive attachment disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, oppositional defiant disorder and fetal alcohol syndrome to name a few. This means that he will give you the right answer, without emotion, while simultaneously screaming get away from me and attaching himself to your leg in a grip of death. However when it comes to word problems like the one you describe, I am at a loss.
If Sally has 2 eggs, and gives 1 egg to Adam, how many eggs do Sally and Adam have? I would want to describe the concept of the ovary rather than saying 2 eggs. Whereas my son would say something like “they have two eggs, I wonder how many George has?”
My most recent post: http://whynotfathers.com/2012/02/alls-quiet-on-the-western-front.html
“I would want to describe the concept of the ovary rather than saying 2 eggs” – Ha!
It sounds like you and son really got dealt a tough hand. Kudos to you for homeschooling him.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting!
LOVE it! I’ve got your back sister
Thanks, Carol! And thanks for commenting! I think it’s so nice of you to read my blog. Very neighborly
I couldn’t even figure out what he did wrong. I would have answered it the same way! Should I go back to first grade? So stunned by his division! You go Yoda! Your smarter than your first grade teacher.
So happy to “see” you Barryl! Thanks for stopping by and commenting!
Ok, so I completely love how his mind works~ and I see what you’re saying… however (and this is a small however), the problem states that Ann is SKIP counting. We teach skip counting as a faster way of counting to get to a bigger number. Did he get the answer right? Yes, b/c he knew she was counting by tens~ yet the teacher was looking for 3 *different* numbers to be listed. And hence, the red marks appear.
I enjoy reading your blog b/c it forces me, as a teacher, to remember that there are many other interpretations for the same problem~ which is the way it should be. Too often we tell students how to think instead of letting their minds have the freedom of figuring it out.
I have a feeling you’re a fabulous teacher, Tina. It was the first thing I thought when I found out that was your job.
That was nice of you to stop by and comment!
I’m so glad I’ve found your blog!!!
1. Word problems are B.S.
2. It’s by 15′s
3. It’s not an appropriate question
4. Learning to think mathematically should be the core of a math curriculum, Yoda has nailed that aspect.
Students should learn to use math to understand what’s around them (naturally).
Not that they need to answer questions in a certain way (that mirrors what the teacher thinks) to gain full marks.
Blergh… ask any of the three aspies I live with, I’ve read chunks of your writing to my fiancee, how we relate (and laugh (with, not at))!!
oxox
Thanks so much for reading & commenting, Hannah! I love it that you live with 3 Aspies & look forward to checking out your blog.
I think Little Yoda’s reasoning/thought process is absolute genius! I mean think about it…the question states 3 numbers, skip counting by 2s, 5s, 10s. Three 2′s are 6 and three 5′s are 15. Therefore the “logical” answer would be three 10s are 30 as Little Yoda answered AND supported by showing his division! Brilliant! Had the question stated 3 “DIFFERENT” numbers…I’m sure he would’ve gotten the teacher’s answer!
I’ve found the word “different” to be such an important word in the world of ASD.
It seems totally logical to me! The word “different” is imperative for my comprehension here. Yoda understood the teacher’s comments, but I was stumped for a while
As a former teacher, looks like a perfect job to me.
Count me in with the Math Snobs!
When you don’t think typically, you have the potential to interpret unseen meaning into questions. My father, an Aspie mathemetician, said this was a long term problem with his elementary education. Add this to the pile of reasons I am thinking about homeschool!
As creative as your son is, there are people who are equally as uncreative and who completely lack the ability to see things more than just one way. Keep feeding, rewarding and assuring him that his creativity is a wonderful gift.
Hi Kirsten! My name is Jen and I am an old friend of Dan’s from the Quad Cities. I saw your link on Alison’s FB page so I hope you don’t mind that I came to check out your blog! I am a teacher and have many asperger students. Your blog is a WONDERFUL reminder to me that not everyone views things in the same manner! I wish your son had a math teacher like one that I work with – one who teaches kids that there are MANY correct ways to arrive at an answer. Keep advocating for your son! I hope to meet you some day – I’ve heard all about you! Try to convince your hubby to make a trip back to his home town
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Jen King
Hi Jen! Nice to “meet” you! Thanks for stopping by & commenting.
I’m sure Dan would love to head back home. I’ll give him a nudge on your behalf.
Talk to the teacher, if it’s at all possible (not going to be massively awkward).
This is a completely inappropriate response to your son’s answer. Further, the question is asinine. On so many levels. Further, the request that the student explain in words, pictures or numbers suggests an openness to different ways of answering the question – an openness the teacher has failed to demonstrate.
In my opinion, your response is completely sensible, not snobby in the slightest!!!
Thank you, PentagonHexagon! I LOVE your name.
Love this one!! I hope more teachers realize that he has thought beyond the question…yet again! I hope when I was teaching I recognized this as much as I do now as a parent. Love your blog!!!